TD12M, X, H, and S discussion

[paulspencer]

Hi John,

I have some questions:

1. Are you specifying one way xmax or peak to peak? It's unclear and seems that you may be quoting both at different times.

2. Also what is the cost of these drivers?

3. What is the shipping weight?

4. Which shipping method do you use now? USPS air only?

5. Do you have frequency response plots? (The linked PDF files don't appear to be posted yet)

I'd also like to know for the 15" TD15s.

[stryke]

Hi John,
1. Are you specifying one way xmax or peak to peak? It's unclear and seems that you may be quoting both at different times.

All drivers are listed as one way Xmax. The TDM has a much shorter coil with 6mm Xmax and the TDX, H, and S all have 14mm.

2. Also what is the cost of these drivers?

All the TD10's are $239, 12's are $259 and 15's are $279, and there is a $50 total discount if buying a pair.

3. What is the shipping weight?

They are all 28lbs packaged. There is less than 1lb difference between the 10's, 12's, and 15's.

4. Which shipping method do you use now? USPS air only?

We ship with UPS ground to US locations and BAXGlobal/Schenker to most all international locations. Anything over a single package and BAX is cheaper than USPS air.

5. Do you have frequency response plots? (The linked PDF files don't appear to be posted yet)

I do have many plots for my own use in systems, but I have had no time to really sit down and measure all drivers at a set distance. The TD woofers present a challenge because they play so high as well. I plan on getting a bunch of drivers over to the church gym where I can do ground plane measurements. I'll provide all the details on the testing so others can re-create the results anywhere.

John

[paulspencer]

Thanks for the quick and thorough response! I have a few more (always the way!)

1. What does it mean when you specify 6mm peak xmax? I assumed it meant peak to peak rather than one way. Is there anything else that it could mean?

2. Would I be about right in saying shipping would be about $150 each to Melbourne Australia? Couldn't find anything online for BAX, but I did find USPS calculator.

3. Is the polar response significantly different to a conventional 12 or 15" pro driver? In particular below 1.2k

4. Is there anything about the dipole driver that makes it more suitable for dipole use (excluding Qts)?

[stryke]

1. What does it mean when you specify 6mm peak xmax? I assumed it meant peak to peak rather than one way. Is there anything else that it could mean?

Peak will always mean one way, just to to the peak in one direction. Peak to peak means one way and then to the other. So peak is always one way Xmax.

2. Would I be about right in saying shipping would be about $150 each to Melbourne Australia? Couldn't find anything online for BAX, but I did find USPS calculator.

Shipping will be influenced greatly by how close you are to a major airport with BAX. If you can provide your full address I can quote specifically what you want. For comparison sake we just sent 2 TD15M's to WA 6155 Australia for $255 to his door. Four IB15's to Queensland Australia ran $328 to the Brisbane Airport.

3. Is the polar response significantly different to a conventional 12 or 15" pro driver? In particular below 1.2k

The polar response is going to be somewhat better, but will still be similar to most 12" and 15" drivers. The 15" has the most benefit over traditional 15" drivers due to the cone profile and long phase plug.

4. Is there anything about the dipole driver that makes it more suitable for dipole use (excluding Qts)?

[/quote]

The optimal Q is obviously the first benefit. The underhung design also has a very flat BL curve out to about 12mm one way in either direction. The other TD drivers already have quite a smooth BL curve vs traditional overhung designs, but nothing can get flatter than the underhung used in it's intended range.

John

[paulspencer]

Again, thanks for the response.

More questions!

1. What is the cost of the dipole drivers?

2. When you say the polar response is better, what do you mean? Do you mean wider dispersion? Flatter off axis?

3. Does the phase plug on the 12" protrude less than with the 15"?

4. Are Appollo versions available? If so, how much extra? What do you consider to be the improvement?

[stryke]

1. What is the cost of the dipole drivers?

The Dipole drivers are the same as the other TD drivers, so $279, $259, $239 for 15", 12", 10" respectively.

2. When you say the polar response is better, what do you mean? Do you mean wider dispersion? Flatter off axis?

I'll try to get some measurements soon so you can take a look for yourself. They tend to be smoother with less irregularity than most drivers as you get further off axis. They also extend somewhat higher in frequency up to about 30degrees than most.

3. Does the phase plug on the 12" protrude less than with the 15"?

The 15's have a 4" phase plug that comes nearly to the front of the cone. The length was increased on these to get rid of an acoustic loading issue that caused IMD. with the shorter phase plugs you could play a 20hz tone at high excursion and a 1KHz tone at the same time. The 1KHz tone was audibly modulated by the excursion, but this was no longer an issue with the longer phase plugs. The key was to extend the phase plug so the acoustic loading it created was the same even at high excursions. The 10" and 12" do get shorter phase plugs but they end up nearly the same in relation to the cone/surround.

4. Are Appollo versions available? If so, how much extra? What do you consider to be the improvement?

[/quote]

The apollo versions are $100 more per driver. This adds the 2 additional shorting rings. Main benefit is even better heat transfer from the coil, so lower power compression. It also further linearizes inductance.

John

[PUREAUDIO]

what are the mounting depth of the 12''s

[stryke]

Mounting depth on all the 12's is 6 3/4"

John

[Tristanc1]

Hi John,

I was wondering If I could get the dimensions of the TD12M driver? Specifically the cutout diameter,and the total diameter if it isn't too much trouble:) I apologize in advance if it's been posted elsewhere, couldn't find it though...

Thanks!
Tristan

[stryke]

Hi John,

I was wondering If I could get the dimensions of the TD12M driver? Specifically the cutout diameter,and the total diameter if it isn't too much trouble:) I apologize in advance if it's been posted elsewhere, couldn't find it though...

Thanks!
Tristan

Hi Tristan,

The OD of the woofer is 12.5" so I'd go 12 5/8" diameter for the countersink if you plan to flush mount. The cutout hole would need to be 11".

John

[findbuddha]

What are the risks of driving the M version into over excursion at low frequencies? The other versions have both an xmax and xsus listed.

Thanks

[stryke]

What are the risks of driving the M version into over excursion at low frequencies? The other versions have both an xmax and xsus listed.

Thanks

The TDM has a much shorter coil with about 6mm Xmax based on the BL curve. The driver suspension is good to about 12mm or so. There is little risk of damaging anything. You will of course be more limited in output at the lowest frequencies vs the other models. That is the tradeoff for higher efficiency and higher extension.

John

[germanaudio]

Hi Tristan,
The OD of the woofer is 12.5" so I'd go 12 5/8" diameter for the countersink if you plan to flush mount. The cutout hole would need to be 11".
John

Hello John, please tell this for European...

The OD should be 317,5mm and you suggest 320mm for the countersink to flush mount? The cutout hole would need about 280mm... is that right?
What is the mounting depth of the countersink? (mounting depth of woofer should be 172mm?)

I also need this mounting dimensons for the 15" PR's...
Thanks

Oliver

[simon5]

Your calculations look right to me !

Here's TD15 dimensionals where you can see what countersink is needed : http://www.aespeakers.com/pdfs/TD15-dimensional.pdf

John usually recommends 3/4 inch of countersink or about 19 mm, but as you can see, you could maybe do slightly less and be OK.

There's also this TD12 dimensionals but it's less complete : http://www.aespeakers.com/pdfs/TD12-dimensional.pdf

For the PR15, John told me he now uses TD15 frames, so you can use the TD15 dimensional above.

Good luck !